unedited text of an aim conversation with Emily:
[12:31] jsquaredathome: omfg
[12:31] jsquaredathome: they're all characters out of a chuck novel
[12:31] erittermle: huh/
[12:31] erittermle: haha... your head still spinnin with demonic supermodels huh?
[12:32] jsquaredathome: naw
[12:32] jsquaredathome: grouphug.us
[12:32] jsquaredathome: confession site
[12:32] erittermle: oh... haha.. yes
[12:32] erittermle: I saw that this morning.. interesting phenomena
[12:32] jsquaredathome: it's RAW... it's WRONG
[12:32] erittermle: only thing it's missing is the connectivity of identity..
[12:33] erittermle: I wanted to know who was repeat visiting
[12:33] erittermle: a couple of them could be connected as far as their writing goes...but it's too random to pin down
[12:33] jsquaredathome: i just thought... all the characters anyone could ever need
[12:34] erittermle: better than charecter.. conflict
[12:34] erittermle: eveyone needs conflict!!!
[12:34] jsquaredathome: totally
[12:34] jsquaredathome: well have fun
[12:35] erittermle: in referring to the middle class: "this class set in motion the systematic invasion of private life by survelliance, observation, evaluation and remidation"
[12:36] erittermle: seems like this site if further proof of the bourgeouise internet
[12:36] erittermle: haha.. sorry... tying in homework
[12:38] erittermle: hey.. you know who stanley fish is?
[12:48] jsquaredathome: alas no
[12:48] jsquaredathome: but I would buy the whole systematic invasion
[12:48] jsquaredathome: reality shows, funniest home videos- those are to make us comfortable with universal surveillance
[12:49] jsquaredathome: and we, like chuck's trapped authors, try to make it all about us
[12:49] erittermle: thats Nancy Armstrong... but Fish is the keynote speaker for the Lit conferance at UofL on thursday
[12:49] erittermle: awwww yess... astute!!
[12:49] jsquaredathome: check david brin's _the transparent society_
[12:49] erittermle: oooh.. I didnt' think about that in Haunted at all
[12:49] erittermle: I was so "caught" up
[12:50] erittermle: who is brin? I'm doing "superstars of philosophy" today
[12:50] jsquaredathome: the government is going to have universal surveillance technology to an increasing degree, forever. the only way to keep it from becoming a 1984 is to let the people watch as well, watching the watchmen
[12:50] jsquaredathome: so we all watch
[12:51] jsquaredathome: we can all see what's going on at the police station, and they can see the hallways of our apartment complexes
[12:51] jsquaredathome: david brin is a stanford(?) phd engineer, wrote sf, + some theory
[12:51] erittermle: false comfort... but enough to displace our fears..
[12:51] jsquaredathome: exactly
[12:52] jsquaredathome: we make it into our own importance, since we can't stand it to be our oppression
[12:52] jsquaredathome: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0738201448/sr=8-1/qid=1140371524/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-6929363-1832152?%5Fencoding=UTF8
[12:52] jsquaredathome: he was on to it BEFORE 9-11
[12:52] erittermle: the metanarrative is no different than the contrived narrative of the reality show... chopped and screwed into a dynamic of heros and villains.. to suit us
[12:53] jsquaredathome: actually my origin for the infestation of superheroines/divas is- what happens when we can buy either a drug or a genetic makeover than makes us into a copy of someone famous- an elaborate means of identity-suicide
[12:54] jsquaredathome: leaving behind someone with no redeeming qualities but beauty and confidence- something that many would suffer ego-death to posess
[12:54] jsquaredathome: an army of clones, each thinking they are the real one, the others are all fake...
[12:55] erittermle: but where does class fit into this? Are the elites less surveilled and more immitatable?
[12:55] erittermle: are the poor more surveilled and less immitatable?
[12:55] jsquaredathome: money is always going to be power
[12:55] jsquaredathome: power is always going to watch
[12:55] jsquaredathome: the antidote is for the powerless to watch the powerful... without worship
[12:56] jsquaredathome: everyone grovels at donald trump's boots
[12:56] jsquaredathome: but not if they find out he likes being whipped or some crazy shit
[12:56] erittermle: Boudieu would say that's the aspirations of the poor to rise up in society
[12:56] jsquaredathome: exactly... but since most can't, all they have is fantasy
[12:57] erittermle: but if the poor do not worship the rich... they won't aspire out of poverty...therefore they are constantly in a state of hegemony
[12:57] erittermle: I don't know if I used "hegemony" right there.. I'm still figuring out this concept
[12:57] jsquaredathome: hegemony is being ruled
[12:58] jsquaredathome: like britain and india, the whole society had an overclass
[12:58] erittermle: hmmm.. ok... I'm getting close to it then..
[12:59] erittermle: I'm half-way through my chapter on "historiscm" in my theory class...
[12:59] erittermle: it's cool shit..
[12:59] jsquaredathome: when you and I work within the system to carve out a small life for ourselves- ie, heat, electric, aol... we unwittingly submit
[13:00] erittermle: haha.. I like how you threw AOL in there... but the poor have limited internet access...
[13:00] jsquaredathome: anarchist theorists would have us question the validity of the system we work through to provide us with resources- is the exploitation of our labor worth what we recieve in return?
[13:00] jsquaredathome: I say yes- but I also designed my own subsystem
[13:00] erittermle: not with Aol anyways.. haha
[13:00] jsquaredathome: exactly
[13:00] jsquaredathome: the poor are too caught in the struggle for survival to climb to the next rung
[13:01] jsquaredathome: when he gets closer, daver wrecks his car
[13:01] jsquaredathome: or the heating bill doubles
[13:01] erittermle: I guess what I'm wondering.. is if the poor aren't much less controlled by a power structure than the middleclass due to thier lack of surveillable resources?
[13:01] jsquaredathome: that's their way out
[13:02] erittermle: but to no end.. right? since becoming middle class opens you up to this new and improved hegemony
[13:02] jsquaredathome: the french revolution, the hippy subeconomy, deadheads, gutterpunks, solar fanatics off the grids
[13:02] jsquaredathome: the main economy has uses for unskilled labor, so we are allowed enough freedom to fail at schooling, then no mercy in the mainstream job market
[13:03] erittermle: awww... I see, by reveling in poverty.. you do not worship the rich
[13:03] jsquaredathome: that's the gutter thing
[13:03] jsquaredathome: anarcho freak rejectionism
[13:03] erittermle: yeah... sevi was like that... It does work.. it's hard.. but it works
[13:03] jsquaredathome: but society is perfectly happy to let you do that... eventually the artwork they produce is commoditized
[13:03] erittermle: better if you are on some mind altering drug..
[13:03] jsquaredathome: their rebellion gives way to child rearing
[13:04] jsquaredathome: they are co-opted by necessity
[13:04] erittermle: or Lithium.. or something that feeds into the market
[13:04] jsquaredathome: exactly
[13:05] erittermle: aww.. well, I guess I should be happy I'm above Jane Austen in this respect.. that I understand both sides of the spectrum
[13:05] jsquaredathome: so I view memetech as an experiment in creating a capitalist structure that doesn't screw the workers, sets it's own agenda. it's still whoring out, but we negotiate our own terms.
[13:05] jsquaredathome: ya... Jane could only look up? or down...
[13:05] erittermle: Jane was consumed with the bourgiouse... I like to think of Memetech as an agraian model
[13:06] jsquaredathome: sharing the land?
[13:06] erittermle: seasonal and tied to the weather
[13:06] jsquaredathome: kibbutz?
[13:06] jsquaredathome: lol
[13:06] erittermle: yeah.. that too
[13:06] erittermle: we are shirt farmers...
[13:06] jsquaredathome: someday, technology will reach a point where the rejectionist will be able to subsist at a level equal or near that of the bourgoise
[13:07] erittermle: so... tech spreads out and evens out.. to become like TV?
[13:07] jsquaredathome: I in my solar powered camper, living off the land, will be able to educate my children, generate electricity and knowledge, while relating to society only through the net and ups
[13:07] erittermle: eh.. I think technology is instrinsically classist...
[13:08] erittermle: there will always be *better* solar powered campers
[13:08] jsquaredathome: that's not the nature of it, that's just design
[13:08] erittermle: with more doo-idgits.. that cost more that do more
[13:08] jsquaredathome: once upon a time, sewing machines had huge rubber belts that caught limbs and tore them off
[13:08] erittermle: although.. here I am.. in my dial up land... talking to you in your broadband land... right?
[13:08] jsquaredathome: oooo
[13:09] jsquaredathome: but when you can download the blueprint for your machine to build a satelite dish- we become equal
[13:09] jsquaredathome: all you need is the one fab machine, and you have a corucopia
[13:09] jsquaredathome: cornucopia
[13:10] erittermle: hmmm.. but will I have the means to actually do that? and to what gain? for instance with the sewing machine, our most advanced models today are playthings for middleclass hobbiests..
[13:10] erittermle: no one is out there making clothes to work in ... or sewing dishrags
[13:11] jsquaredathome: because it's easier to buy it.
[13:11] jsquaredathome: what if it's easier to make it?
[13:11] jsquaredathome: ie, download something, press print, put it on.
[13:11] erittermle: so... if my dialup becomes SO easy that poor people can use it.. then it's universal?
[13:12] jsquaredathome: ya
[13:12] jsquaredathome: so cheap that it's almost free
[13:12] erittermle: but it isnt... because the same resources, aka the "information" that I get in dial up land is MUCH slower than you...
[13:12] jsquaredathome: only until you fab a dish
[13:12] erittermle: so... the hunt is slowed down..
[13:12] erittermle: ahahah.
[13:12] jsquaredathome: it's bootstrappable
[13:13] jsquaredathome: it's the only answer to having people like me (technical, agressive) become an aristocracy
[13:13] erittermle: and the poor will WANT to pull themselves up by thier bootstraps and build a dish... because they aspire to be more
[13:13] jsquaredathome: and we get back to the cult of the rich
[13:14] jsquaredathome: the only way to cure it is to make everyone rich
[13:14] erittermle: haha..
[13:14] erittermle: or communist!
[13:14] jsquaredathome: then we get to the biggest problem
[13:14] jsquaredathome: communism sucks.
[13:14] erittermle: yeah.. too bad..
[13:14] jsquaredathome: communism divides everything until everyone is equally poor, and screwed by the dividers
[13:15] jsquaredathome: postcapitalism will be a land of plenty based on molecular manufacturing... because it's the only way to keep the poor from revolting
[13:15] jsquaredathome: you give everyone enough to live off of, and then they stop bothering you
[13:15] jsquaredathome: the problem with the 'post-need' economy is: what does everyone do?
[13:15] erittermle: OOOH NANOTECH!
[13:15] erittermle: ahha.. I'm having an acid flashback for some reason
[13:16] erittermle: Oh Uncle JJ.. tell us about Nanotech!!
[13:16] erittermle: I tend to think no one will ever be satisfied
[13:16] jsquaredathome: exactly
[13:16] erittermle: Eliot has this issue at the homesless shelter all the time
[13:17] erittermle: the bums argue back and forth trying to kill each other over bullshit.. like having to sleep on a cot instead of a bed
[13:17] jsquaredathome: then we need famous humans and their exceptional stories to entertain us even more
[13:17] jsquaredathome: as to nanotech - it's mostly bullshit at the moment- as we think of the godlike build-anything machine
[13:17] erittermle: so we MUST aspire to something... there have to be humans who are Better than us...
[13:18] jsquaredathome: or a fashion system of people altering their nature or exploring... something to be Next
[13:19] erittermle: hmmm... the next...
[13:19] jsquaredathome: but anyway nanotech in terms of materials science, biotech and geneering basically boil down to, "Things Keep On Getting Better"
[13:19] erittermle: thats one to think about
[13:19] erittermle: religion
[13:19] jsquaredathome: see... this is what our parents figured out
[13:19] jsquaredathome: we don't have to solve everything
[13:19] erittermle: its not appearence...its religion
[13:20] erittermle: thats the only thing our world is lacking
[13:20] jsquaredathome: we just have to hold it together and the universities, the artists, the logistics people- they will make things better
[13:20] erittermle: untill the prophet arrives
[13:20] erittermle: ahhaa
[13:20] jsquaredathome: our religions tell us we get to work now and then we go to heaven
[13:21] jsquaredathome: but with a little twist in the translation, maybe what we're trying to do is turn our imperfect earth into a heaven
[13:21] jsquaredathome: maybe that's the commandment
[13:21] erittermle: oooh.. maybe we find out... that there IS no heaven
[13:21] erittermle: like: for real.. through our advancing technology
[13:21] jsquaredathome: what if we could build one?
[13:22] erittermle: it wouldnt be "ideal"
[13:22] erittermle: unless it was a "holo-heaven"
[13:22] erittermle: I think that's already a movie though.. *snicker
[13:22] jsquaredathome: what if the spirit realm is an analogy for our transcribed minds living on in a virtual (spiritual) realm?
[13:22] jsquaredathome: see... I think it will happen during our lifetimes.
[13:22] erittermle: Maybe... when we are ooooollld
[13:23] jsquaredathome: either we will nuke ourselves out of the game, or we will progress to the point that we are functionally immortal
[13:23] jsquaredathome: if old is like 60, yes
[13:23] erittermle: that sucks.. we gonna be on our deathbeds.. and not even have heaven to look forward too.
[13:24] jsquaredathome: the independant analysis of the social security problem came up with a retirement age of 85... because each year for the next 20 years, life expectancy should go up one year.
[13:24] jsquaredathome: I look forward to rejuvination by then
[13:24] erittermle: so we are 85, and the world has a crisis of faith.. due to the fact that no one wants to die..cause life is heaven..
[13:24] jsquaredathome: because Crazy Billionaires will pay anything not to due
[13:24] jsquaredathome: sounds like a drug addiction
[13:25] erittermle: what a horrible horrible thing that is..
[13:25] erittermle: yeah.. it does
[13:25] jsquaredathome: hell, things never go the way we expect
[13:25] jsquaredathome: today and now is the thing to worry about... what are you going to do today?
[13:26] erittermle: *scowl... read more historicism..
[13:26] erittermle: OOH.. but flava of love is on tonight!
[13:27] jsquaredathome: I'm gonna go hang with my mom, see Bill.
[13:27] jsquaredathome: And I think if you don't mind I'll post this conversation to my blog?
[13:28] erittermle: say hi for me...
[13:28] jsquaredathome: will do
[13:28] erittermle: naw.. go head.. it's an interesting prediction
[13:28] erittermle: let's see in 50 years if we are right!